Small Business And Redundancy Payments Craig Emerson - Shadow Minister for Workplace Relations, Shadow Minister for the Public Service

Doorstop Interview

Transcript - Parliament House, Canberra - 3 April 2004

Emerson: A lot of sport is being played today, and what has really happened here is that the umpire has made its decision, John Howard and his Liberal bully-boys haven't liked the decision, they've run on to the field, biffed the umpire and said "we're going to change the rules of the game".

That's not really the way that Australians do things.

The decision of the Commission that was made allows for small businesses who can't afford to pay redundancy to go to the Commission and make that case, so in that sense the decision does take account of the potential impact of redundancy payments on small businesses.

But if John Howard were fair dinkum about helping small business he would simplify the Business Activity Statement, which he has refused to do over several years now.

The fact of the matter is this: the Government will probably have to rely on the corporations power to bring this legislation into effect and most small businesses are not corporations. In addition, most small businesses are covered by the state systems, not the federal system.

So John Howard's announcement today will not have much, if any, impact on small businesses anyway.

It's just a political move and it's an un-Australian approach to say "the umpire has made the decision, I don't like the decision of the umpire, I'm going to biff the umpire and change the rules of the game".

Having said that, I will consult with my colleagues on the legislation when I see it. Parliament won't be sitting now for another six weeks, and I'll talk to my colleagues before Labor finalises its position on this Bill.

Reporter: Isn't it the case that several Labor States have actually supported the Government's position effectively?

Emerson: The truth of the matter is that we respect the decision of the umpire. All of the relevant information was put in front of the independent umpire before the Commission made its decision. As a result, Labor respects the decision of the independent umpire. We think Australians would expect that the decisions of umpires should be respected.

On that basis, we are very concerned about the move that the Prime Minister made.

But I don't think he's fair dinkum, because if he was fair dinkum he would acknowledge that they will probably have to use the corporations power. The corporations power is of no relevance to small businesses that aren't companies and the majority of small businesses are covered by the state systems not the federal system, so they won't be advantaged by the Government's decision.

Reporter: But you've got several Labor States that effectively don't support the umpire's decision?

Emerson: The Labor States put forward their views, the umpire considered their views along with other views, and then the umpire made the decision. The Labor states aren't saying "we don't support the decision that has been made". What they said was – they put forward their views, the umpire considered those views, considered the impact of the unavailability of redundancy payments for workers in small businesses and then came down with a decision.

Now often independent tribunals and courts come down with decisions that some parties might not like, but what we normally do in Australia is respect the decision that the umpire has made.

Reporter: You mentioned before that if small businesses don't like it they can go and seek an exemption from the Commission but isn't that a very costly exercise?

Emerson: This is not a court. The industrial relations commission is a tribunal and as such it is a low cost way of dealing with these things. So a small business that can't afford to pay a redundancy just needs to go to the Commission and make the case.

Reporter: Joe Hockey says it costs about $8,000 for a small business to pay out a redundancy. Isn't this a lot of money?

Emerson: Joe Hockey makes things up every day of the week. I wouldn't take any account whatsoever of what Joe Hockey has to say. He has got no credibility in this area or in any other related aspect of his portfolio.

Reporter: How big do you think the average redundancy payout would be for a small business?

Emerson: The point I have been making is that most small businesses are not affected by this decision of the industrial relations commission, because most small businesses are in the state systems not in the federal system. So it doesn't become a relevant question. If they're not affected, the cost is not relevant.

If they're not affected because they are in the state system – and that is the majority of them – then John Howard's policy will have no effect on them.

Reporter: Would small business employees, if the business has gone broke, would their entitlements have been protected anyway under Labor's plans… (inaudible)?

Emerson: Our plan would cover 100 per cent of entitlements – that is true. But for employees of those small businesses that are affected, this would be an additional entitlement so we would cover that. Our scheme does cover 100 per cent of employee entitlements.

Reporter: How does Labor feel about an early double dissolution election?

Emerson: Election timing is at the prerogative of the Prime Minister and if he wants to call an early election we're ready to fight it. And we'll fight it with great vigour.

This announcement of the Government's today shows yet again that the Government is pretty intent at tearing away at the pay and working conditions of vulnerable Australians. I think lower income Australians, the working poor, have just had enough of John Howard. I'm sure that the next election, whether it is held as an early double dissolution election or it goes its full course, will provide a very adverse judgement of John Howard and his eight years of recklessness in tearing away at the wages and working conditions of Australia's lowest paid workers.

Reporter: How important do you think industrial relations policy will be at the election?

Emerson: The wider area of industrial relations and family policy and trying to strike a balance between work and family life is going to be one of the three biggest issues: education, health and the whole work and family balance, the stress that people are under in the workplace.

So when we talk about industrial relations, people think "oh, techo-talk" or that it is some kind of narrow field for experts. But the reality is that these sorts of decisions can have profound effects on the living standards of Australians. So I hope it is important because the Australian people are coming to understand just how nasty this Government is when it comes to protecting their wages and working conditions.

Particularly in relation to working conditions, they have had now 14 Bills in the Parliament, each and every one of them designed to tear away at those basic protections for working Australians. Make them casual employees, put them into insecure employment so they have to do everything that the boss says, they don't know when they are going to be rostered on or rostered off, no entitlement to sick pay, no entitlement to holiday pay.

These are real live issues, they are real life issues, and the Australian people will deliver a very adverse judgement on this Government.

Reporter: (inaudible)

Emerson: It just reinforces the fact that the Government is intent, through this ideological approach, to tear away at the safety net that has been erected by successive governments and the industrial relations commission in this country for more than a hundred years.

And it talks about safety nets – it has been methodically tearing holes in that safety net that protects vulnerable Australians from falling through the floor. Their working conditions are lost and they are put in this precarious employment. That's what this Government has been doing for eight years.

Today is another example of trying to do that, or trying to convey to the small business community that they are somehow going to help them. But for the reasons that I have outlined here today, the Government's announcement will not be of any significant benefit to small business at all.

Ends. E & OE