RSL Congress, Newspoll, Mental Health, Health Crisis, Child protection, Centrelink Fraud, National Electricity Simon Crean - Leader of the Opposition

Radio Interview with Leon Byner

Transcript - Radio 5AA, Adelaide - 2 September 2003

BYNER: Simon Crean, welcome.

CREAN: It's great to come back.

BYNER: So, why are you in Adelaide?

CREAN: Well, I'm speaking to the RSL Congress today. They're having their big congress here, their annual congress in Adelaide, last year it was in Brisbane and I spoke to them last year, and it's always a great opportunity to talk with them. I have very close associations in my electorate they do a fantastic job. It's commitment to the community and a commitment to looking after people and families who have either lost people during war or lose them through ill-health etcetera here. They're a great organisation, I'm looking forward to being there.

BYNER: Simon, the question I'm going to ask you now is one that I know Opposition Leaders and Prime Ministers don't often feel comfortable answering - if they're Prime Minister they feel more comfortable answering it because they're the boss and the other one's not. Nonetheless, this business of polling, I think we've become very dog like in our view of the world, we're obsessed with polls and you know, if an election were held now, it's not really relevant in one way but in another way it is because it can unseat people who have important jobs like yours. But, why do you think it is that people - I mean, you're a pretty warm bloke you know. To sit in front of you and talk to you, you seem like a very reasonable, nice bloke. Why is it that people do not regard you as a much stronger contender for Prime Minister like John Howard when in fact, to talk to you, you're going to take calls in a moment which I think is fantastic, have you thought about, is it that you maybe don't get out enough? Because in your sort of job you've got all these people around you telling you what you should and shouldn't do and ultimately you make the decision. But I'm just interested, and the people of South Australia would like to know. I mean, I think you and John Howard should be pretty close in terms of preferred Prime Minister, but you're not. Why do you think that is?

CREAN: Well, preferred Prime Minister, preferred Premier. Just have a look at what's happening here in this state. The preferred Prime Minister or the preferred Premier is always the incumbent. Always has been and always will be.

BYNER: Sure, but not by the margins though, that we're seeing.

CREAN: Yes, by the margins, that's been quite common. But again, we can get preoccupied with the polls. I don't need a poll to tell me that people want truth and honesty in government. I don't need a poll to tell me that people are worried about their health, their education, that families are hurting. Now, if you actually look at the poll today I think what's quite intriguing is that if you look at the trend over the last two months, Labor has closed an 8 point gap to a 2 point gap. And why? Because the Government has been caught out deceiving, not telling the truth on a whole range of fronts, and it's been ignoring the sorts of issues that people want attended to. Actually, it was interesting, I read the paper today in the Advertiser, the crisis that you've got in your health system with elective surgery for children being cut back.

BYNER: Yes, I was going to ask about that.

CREAN: This just shouldn't happen, Leon.

BYNER: Look, one of the ongoing problems is that the funding for health and education is a combination of state and fed. And in a way that's the most terrible thing that can be because inevitably politics and partisanship get into this. In fact, someone came in yesterday and said - it was George Negus, and I agree with him - there are certain issues that should not be political but the reality is that they are, and I wish that I could take the politics out of it because even if you increase health funding by the CPI, that's never enough because with technology increases, the fact that we're a greying country, we're not getting as many young people into the system to pay for the pensions and the other costs that exist at the other end of the scale, the fact that we've got the flu at the moment which is causing problems - so there's a whole range of issues here. What are the two things that you would do, if you were the Prime Minister right now? What would you do now to ease what is a crisis in the health system in this country and in this state?

CREAN: I'd implement my proposal which would restore bulk billing. One of the great crises that is hitting the hospitals is because people can't get a doctor who bulk bills so they go to the local emergency ward. They put pressure onto the hospitals. So, one step is to restore bulk billing and I've got a plan that does that.

BYNER: How much does that cost you?

CREAN: It was $1.9 billion and I've talked to you on this program before how it is funded…

BYNER: Yes.

CREAN: …I can go through the detail of how we fund it again, but, it is fully costed, and fully funded. It is about reordering priorities in the Budget. But just as I've reordered the priorities in health and education, I can show that we can do it in a different way, in a better way and in an affordable way. The second point that I would go to is that we have to get a better understanding between the Commonwealth and the states. It's not just about funding, it's the about the way we reform the health system. I spoke before about the problem with the emergency wards being pressured and therefore pressure on the hospitals because people can't get a doctor who bulk bills. Another problem is that if aged care beds aren't being funded properly, people who could be in aged care beds end up in hospital beds. That also puts pressure on the hospitals.

BYNER: Simon, another problem that we've got is that the mental health here is in a parlous state. I would argue that it's in a parlous state across Australia. But for some reason here in Adelaide, we seem to be getting the raw end of it. I've said to you that there are suburbs where you sit down and have a coffee at where you would see that there are people out there in the streets in almost a stupor. These are people who need help. They have been deinstitutionalised and nobody has been caring for them. Now, I feel, Simon that that's untenable. Don't you think so?

CREAN: Yes I do. I think that, there's nothing wrong with the principle of deinstitutionalising people but there has got to be the support services there. But I think the other problem, Leon, is this: mental health and mental illness is a growing problem. I know this because my wife is actively involved in helping in this area. In fact, the last time I was in Adelaide she was over, associated with a fundraising activity for mental health. But this is a problem that we, in part, haven't been open about. We haven't been prepared to talk about it. We should, it does need the support services and people really do need help.

BYNER: I would also suggest to you, from the clinical professionals that I've spoken to, that there is a huge connection, because the mental health problem is increasing quite dramatically, fed in part by illicit drugs. And I don't think that we've acknowledged that either. You see, we've tended to look at this as a recreational issue and that it's civil liberties. But I think it's crossed the boundaries well and truly.

CREAN: Again, it think we've got to take the appropriate medical advice and get the advice from the professionals on this, Leon. It is a complicated area. But the point is that it touches so many people and their families. And the families are the one's who get worried sick because they want to know that their loved ones are getting the proper care and attention and they're entitled to be satisfied on the answers to that.

BYNER: Simon, if one of your children came to you and said, `I don't think there's anything wrong with smoking marijuana'. What would you as a dad tell them?

CREAN: I would say to them, `let's have a look at the evidence on that'. I'd sit down with them and take them through the material that shows how it can be harmful. Now, in the end, I think that parents need to be proper - not just counsellors to their kids - they need to be good mates with their kids. They need to be frank, they need to be direct with them. Kids, most of all, know that what parents want to do is the right thing by them. They may not think that initially but I think that the association and the love between the fights and the good times, you know the commitment. So, I think it is terribly important to counsel them wisely on it.

BYNER: Let's talk to Julie. Julie, good morning, you're talking to Simon Crean.

JULIE: Good morning, Mr Crean. Good morning, Mr Byner.

CREAN: Hi, Julie.

JULIE: Simon, I've just finally understood your message about bulk billing. I'm a registered nurse, I've been listening to you intently for the last few months about bulk billing and it didn't hit home until recently when my daughter moved to York Peninsula. She got really sick and she's in a low paying position as it is and when she went to a doctor's surgery she was told that she could not see a doctor until she put her hand out and paid $36 upfront. If she didn't pay upfront she would not be able to see a doctor. So she actually ran herself completely broke to see a doctor and there wasn't even a Medicare office to get a refund. My question is, what will you do about it?

CREAN: My commitment is to increase the rebate across the board as a down payment on the system. Now, this is a circumstance that's being seriously run down by the Government and I'm not pretending it can be solved overnight because the problem has occurred over seven years. But my down payment really starts getting it back up. And the AMA have acknowledged the fact that it is a significant first step. But, I'm delighted that you've rung in because I think this issue of bulk billing is going to affect everyone, and it will take time to get the message through. But I've been hammering away at this for a few months. I'm not delighted that the circumstances have affected your family the way they have because that's what I want to stop. But we're going to hear stories like yours all around the country because it's not just a question of talking bulk billing – this is the impact on families, this is the impact on people's lives. And I think in politics, you've got to look after families, you've got to be supportive of them because they are the lifeblood of this country.

BYNER: Okay. Let's go to Maria.

MARIA: Hi, Leon. Good morning, Simon. Is that all right if I call you Simon?

CREAN: Absolutely. Everyone else does.

MARIA: Right. As the future Prime Minister, please don't disregard the elderly, and don't disregard the rest of us. And always put yourself in the people's shoes and please don't lie about policies because this Howard Liberal Government has lied to the public on so many occasions.

BYNER: Maria, what is your question?

MARIA: My question is, can we revert back to public hospitals and stop this stupidness of privatisation of our hospitals and our aged care? Because it did serve us very well before we went down the road of the user pays like the American system. And now the American system is reverting back to what they had. Why do we have to follow everyone else's mistakes? Why can't we nip it in the bud now and get it back to where it used to be?

CREAN: Well, the short answer to that, Maria, is we can. Australia had a world leading health system. What Australia had established under Medicare was recognised all round the world: the lowest cost, most effective service of most countries in the world. What we've been driving too over recent years though is the Americanisation. And it doesn't solve the problem, all it does is to shift the cost to the individuals. Can I just make this point, Leon, because I think it's terribly important. I've never tried to pretend that you can get health care for free. You can't. But people do pay the Medicare levy. They do pay for health care through the Medicare levy.

BYNER: Would you put that up?

CREAN: No, because I've shown in terms of my package that you don't need to. You can start addressing the problem by reordering the Budget. But whilst I say that people contribute to the health system, what the Howard Government is making them do is to pay yet again when they go to see a doctor. That's just not fair. And it means that people can't get access to affordable health care in this country and they must. I'm committed to seeing that they do.

BYNER: Let's talk to Neville. Neville, good morning.

NEVILLE: Good morning. Look, I hope I don't put you on the spot here but one of the things that we all agree on is that children are our future. I am wondering with so many states and people like myself asking the state governments to conduct a Royal Commission, would you, if you became Prime Minister consider a Royal Commission into the protection, and agencies in all the states?

CREAN: Sorry, I didn't hear the last bit.

BYNER: A Royal Commission into the protection of children.

CREAN: Not a Royal Commission because I do not think that that will advance the issue terribly far. But I do fundamentally believe that we have to provide for the protection of our children. I actually proposed – and this came out of the issue of the Governor-General – that what we have are health checks, that people who are working with children have to be cleared. I also proposed a system whereby any organisations that get government funding – and this goes to your agencies question, have to sign up to a code of conduct that reports issues of sexual abuse and complies with the checking system. So I believe fundamentally that we have got to deal with the problem, there are a number of practical steps that can be taken now and I don't think we need a Royal Commission to tell us that. We need some implementation of some real changes and I'm delighted that a number of organisations have been responding positively to the initiatives I've been putting forward.

BYNER: Let's go to Mary. Mary, good morning, you're talking to Simon Crean.

MARY: Thankyou for giving me the opportunity to talk to you. I just wanted to ask you, Amanda Vanstone's office, I recently have put something forward to them about someone committing fraud to Centrelink. Nothing has been done about it. I've given them so much information it's unreal. If you were to be elected to Prime Minister would you change the system of that, basically, the way they are investigating?

CREAN: Of course, I believe that you need a system that makes payments to people who properly qualify. Not those who rort the system. And everyone who rorts the system is denying people who really need it, their just entitlements. So I do believe we have to crack down heavily on people. If you want to send me a copy of what you've sent to the Minister, I'm more than happy to take it up further with her.

BYNER: Simon, yesterday I spoke to Federal Industry Minister, Ian MacFarlane. He made a point that we've now got a very unique situation where the states are now Labor Governments and we desperately need reform of the national electricity market. We in South Australia are having a parlous time here, we have the highest power prices in the nation by a long shot. And what was said yesterday, and I think our Minister Pat Conlon has been a good advocate for this, is that we've got regulators in every state and we need to streamline the process and have one regulator that oversees the whole Australia wide national market. Now, what will you do as the Federal Leader of the Opposition to bring this process into line. Because frankly, part of the reason that we seem to be in this mess is that we have so many different rules and regulations in every state and nobody wants to touch it with a barge pole.

CREAN: You've got to get consistency with the states.

BYNER: Will you do that?

CREAN: Of course we can, if these issues are driven properly at the COAG level – COAG interestingly is the meeting that the Premiers the other day walked out of because they couldn't get satisfaction on health – but, COAG means the Council of Australian Government's. it recognises the fact that there are these issues that overlap that require consistency. But you've got to make it work, you've got to put things on the agenda that actually address them, Leon. The other day they wouldn't address health. On the question of electricity, I think it si important that there is consistency in the regulatory authority. But also, interestingly, I'm not sure what the position is with the electricity now, but going into the last election we made the commitment to actually provide the infrastructure to connect South Australia into the national grid. So it's not just a question of regulation, it's being able to access a competitive market so that you can send the excess or you can draw from other resources when you've got shortages.

BYNER: It's just not happening the way it should.

CREAN: But it should happen. And this is where real partnerships need to happen. Let's put the politics aside.

BYNER: Who has to drive this? Pat Conlan's doing what he can but there are other states involved here.

CREAN: My view is that the Heads of Government have to be involved. I know Pat's been doing a terrific job and all sorts of Ministers know the detail of their portfolio. But these key issues, these fundamental issues have to be driven through the Council of Australian Government's, by the Heads of Government – Heads of Government approach, make it happen from the top.

BYNER: I want to thank you for coming in today. It is always open when you're in Adelaide for you to come and join us and speak with the people of South Australia and I know that you will take the opportunity when you visit again.

CREAN: All right, thanks, Leon. And those teams of yours, they look pretty good. In particular, Port Adelaide.

BYNER: Will you be getting yourself a little box seat at the finals are you?

CREAN: No, no, my team's out of it. But we had some close matches with the Crows towards the end of the season. But, I was over a couple of weeks ago speaking with the SANFL and that was a really nice luncheon. They're great people over here and whilst my team's out of it I wish the South Australia sides very well for the finals.

BYNER: Thanks, Simon.