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ALP News Statements
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Bishop and Emerson discuss One Nation revelations
Craig Emerson - Shadow Minister for Workplace Relations
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TV Interview with Tony Jones
Transcript - , ABC TV - 27 August 2003
Video - Craig Emerson on Lateline, ABC TV (RealMedia)
The revelation of a $100,000 trust fund, set up to pay for legal action against One Nation and its founder, Pauline Hanson, has sparked major debate. To discuss the political implications. From Brisbane, Opposition Workplace Relations spokesman Craig Emerson and here in our Sydney studio, former Liberal minister Bronwyn Bishop. TONY JONES: Returning to our top story -- the revelation of a $100,000 trust fund, set up to pay for legal action against One Nation and its founder, Pauline Hanson.
To discuss the political implications -- from Brisbane, Opposition Workplace Relations spokesman Craig Emerson.
And here in our Sydney studio -- former Liberal minister Bronwyn Bishop.
Craig Emerson, your response to this unfolding story about the people Tony Abbott dealt with in 1998, especially John Samuel.
CRAIG EMERSON, OPPOSITION WORKPLACE RELATIONS MINISTER: The Howard Government has thrown the truth overboard yet again.
Tony Abbott has been forced to admit tonight that he lied to the ABC and through the ABC to the Australian people.
He was asked whether any Liberal Party funds or funds from any other source had been offered to One Nation dissident Terry Sharples to participate in the prosecution of Pauline Hanson.
And he said, "Absolutely not."
Tonight, he says, "I was only answering the first part of the question."
It's reminiscent of his appearance just a couple of weeks ago on this program when Tony Abbott said you have to understand the PM's answers in the totality of the context.
In other words, he was defending the PM for lying then in relation to Manildra and Dick Honan and he has fallen on the board as well now because he lied to the Australian people.
TONY JONES: Alright, you seem not to have heard my question.
Never mind about that.
We will stick with this subject for a moment and come back to the question of John Samuel, this new character in the story.
I will ask Bronwyn Bishop to respond to what you said -- are you comfortable with the defence that Tony Abbott put up tonight for how he came to mislead or lie to the 'Four Corners' program in that interview?
BRONYWN BISHOP, FORMER LIBERAL MINISTER: Well, I think, Tony has put out a statement today explaining exactly what happened and what transpired and most of the things about which Craig was speaking happened after he gave that interview.
So I think the more important thing about this case is what we were discussing yesterday and in the course of today.
That is, and I'm going to say it, the person who is really in trouble in this is Premier Beattie in Queensland trying to unload his guilt on to others.
TONY JONES: Alright, let's deal first of all with what we have in front of us.
We have Tony Abbott's response to the questions that have been raised about how he managed to make that series of responses in the 'Four Corners' interview.
Are you seriously satisfied with his response which seems to ring very close to the PM's response to how he answered a question in Parliament on the Manildra question?
What he says is that he was only answering the first part of the question.
BRONYWN BISHOP: Tony's put out 1.5-page statement explaining --
CRAIG EMERSON: A page and a half of lies.
BRONYWN BISHOP: I take exception to that sort of nonsense.
But this whole question has become relevant because Pauline Hanson has been sentenced to three years jail in maximum security, subject to body searches, the whole indignity of that, for a prosecution that could not have been brought in respect of the federal registration, but brought about in Queensland.
TONY JONES: I'm quite happy to deal with that subject, although the context may be seen as this is a prosecution that may never have happened had not Tony Abbott and others pursued this matter in the civil court, creating a fraud case which the Queensland police then had to follow up on.
Shouldn't you be looking at whether or not there was an attempt to create this case against Mrs Hanson by your own party?
BRONYWN BISHOP: No, you have put your finger on the important issue.
The case taken was a civil case which was about the registration of the party.
The fact that Premier Beattie and his government chose to prosecute Pauline Hanson, not under the Electoral Act, but under the Crimes Act --
TONY JONES: I will deal with that very quickly, if I can.
It has to be said once the civil case showed there was a fraud --
BRONYWN BISHOP: It didn't show there was a fraud.
TONY JONES: Yes it did.
BRONYWN BISHOP: No it didn't.
TONY JONES: And the police were forced to take action.
That is the legal case as we understand.
BRONYWN BISHOP: Let's look at what happened.
Pauline Hanson registered her party for the federal election.
It was a valid -- same registration as for Queensland, it was a valid registration and the electoral funding money was paid from it.
The same registration took part in Queensland.
The only difference was she was a sitting member of Parliament federally and there was no sitting member in Queensland.
It's an important point.
TONY JONES: It's an important point that was dealt with to a large degree.
You have got it off your chest.
BRONYWN BISHOP: No, I haven't.
TONY JONES: Let me ask Craig Emerson to go back to the point we were making before.
Don't you accept what Tony Abbott is saying here -- that, in a sense, he was taken out of context?
CRAIG EMERSON: The only time that Tony Abbott has told the truth is when he admitted he was lying.
Mrs Bishop is looking for conspiracies.
It's easy to find a conspiracy.
She just needs to drive up Pittwater Road and go to Tony Abbott's office because Tony Abbott was in it up to his ears.
You have the PM saying Pauline Hanson was treated harshly.
Pauline Hanson was treated unfairly, when he, the PM, who said that just on Friday, knew way back to 1998 that Tony Abbott had organised the prosecution of Pauline Hanson and had offered to bankroll those witnesses who would come forward and assist in that prosecution.
When it comes to conspiracies, the Bishop should ask the Abbott.
TONY JONES: Bronwyn Bishop, you do need to respond to that.
What do you think really about Tony Abbott's role in pursuing this case against One Nation and Pauline Hanson?
BRONYWN BISHOP: Tony Abbott made it quite clear that he was interested in seeing that public funding money was not paid to One Nation.
That's what he wanted to achieve, and he's made that quite clear in all his statements.
That is a long way from what has happened and brought all this to light.
TONY JONES: Didn't he want to achieve that by assisting in funding the court case which ultimately has left Pauline Hanson in jail?
BRONYWN BISHOP: You see, that's the link that is not correct.
The fact of the matter is it was a civil action that was taken, which resulted in the party being deregistered.
This is despite the fact that the registration Pauline Hanson made of her party in Queensland was accepted by the Electoral Commissioner, he tested 250 of the thousand names put forward.
He then said this is a properly registered party and paid the money.
TONY JONES: Alright.
BRONYWN BISHOP: When the civil case took place, One Nation and Pauline Hanson herself said if that's the case, I will repay the money.
I won't ask the candidates -- 11 of them who won clearly under the banner of the One Nation party, dislike them, disagree with them as I do as a political opponent, they nonetheless had the freedom of speech in this country.
Once that was deregistered, she paid that money back -- mortgaged her house, I think.
At the same time there was then a decision by the Beattie Government and Mr Beattie to prosecute her --
it's important.
TONY JONES: Premier Beattie completely denies that and I want to move on.
BRONYWN BISHOP: Two points and we can then move on.
TONY JONES: One quick point.
BRONYWN BISHOP: Firstly, there was no penalty, there was no offence to be prosecuted under the enabling legislation setting up registration of parties.
TONY JONES: Not according to the police who investigated this case.
BRONYWN BISHOP: There is not.
TONY JONES: We need to move on to Craig Emerson, because there have been other revelation's in tonight's program about the sort of people Tony Abbott was dealing with peripherally or otherwise and we learnt tonight about John Samuel who Terry Sharples described as a bagman for a group of WA businessmen who were providing funds of some sort.
Tony Abbott said he won't talk about those businessmen.
What do you say?
CRAIG EMERSON: Tony Abbott has set up a secret trust fund with himself as one of the trustees and Peter Costello's father-in-law as another of the trustees, which begs the question -- what did Peter Costello know?
Surely his father-in-law told Peter Costello that they had raised $100,000 for the prosecution of Pauline Hanson.
Peter Costello has never made any public statement to that effect.
But these characters are obviously involved in raising funds out of the business community and I believe that the Australian people have a right to know who provided these donations, who made the decisions on the disbursement and who received these funds.
He says that Barbara Hazelton received all the funds.
Barbara Hazelton was involved in getting evidence and coming forward against Pauline Hanson.
TONY JONES: We should add here by the way -- to clear that up -- Barbara Hazelton was another disaffected One Nation person who operated in Pauline Hanson's own office, I believe.
What do you think about what this chap Mr Samuel is saying tonight?
He clearly was connected in some way to Tony Abbott.
CRAIG EMERSON: Sure.
Yet another set of questions that Tony Abbott must answer.
He can't just say, "I'm not going to elaborate at all on the role of these characters in providing funds for the prosecution of Pauline Hanson."
The PM can't say he didn't know about it because he did.
That has been revealed tonight by Tony Abbott that the PM knew about this in 1998.
But did it stop the PM for trying to harvest One Nation sympathy, One Nation votes on just on Friday when he said he felt very sorry for Pauline Hanson?
He didn't feel sorry for Pauline Hanson to call off his attack dog, Tony Abbott, in going after Pauline Hanson and offering to bank roll witnesses.
TONY JONES: Bronwyn Bishop, can I get you to address this question of what Tony Abbott was doing in 1998?
He clearly was dealing with some interesting, colourful characters, if you like, to call them that.
John Samuel was one of them.
Does it worry you that more and more of these people are coming to the fore?
And we're starting to hear more and more?
Shouldn't Tony Abbott come out now and give the whole detail of who was involved in funding these operations?
BRONYWN BISHOP: All political parties have dissidents within them.
Perhaps one of the most controversial for the Labor Party has been the now late Senator Colston.
The Labor Party never forgave him for so-called ratting on them.
There are many political dissidents in parties.
TONY JONES: But not all of them are involved in large-scale and secret fundraising operations to fund legal cases --
BRONYWN BISHOP: To the contrary.
I do recall the case of the Labor Party member in Queensland with $50,000 in cash in a brown paper bag to be handed over to another political party.
I find that somewhat -- I find that interesting.
CRAIG EMERSON: Whenever a Liberal Party Minister or backbencher is in trouble, it's evident they lie -- yet another lie Mrs Bishop?
BRONYWN BISHOP: I take singular exception to you saying that.
CRAIG EMERSON: I ask you to withdraw your outrageous statement about the Premier of Queensland being involved in some sort of corrupt way which were involved in the prosecution of Pauline Hanson or resign.
You withdraw that or resign right here and now.
BRONYWN BISHOP: The statement I made, and I stand by it all the way, is that it was a political decision taken by the Beattie Government to prosecute Pauline Hanson under the fraud -- under the Crimes Act for fraud.
That is a political --
CRAIG EMERSON: The decision was made by the DPP and you know it.
BRONYWN BISHOP: We're not going to have Pontius Pilate here.
TONY JONES: I want your response if you can.
Does it worry you about all this new information -- should Tony Abbott tell the Australian public who was involved in this fundraising operation?
BRONYWN BISHOP: Tony Abbott set it out in his statement today.
TONY JONES: No he hasn't.
BRONYWN BISHOP: He said what he did and the trust fund was set up and --
TONY JONES: Shouldn't we know who those people were who were putting large sums of money, evidently, into a secret fund to destabilise another political party?
BRONYWN BISHOP: As I said, there's always people who are working against to unsettle other political parties -- the Labor Party against the Liberal Party against the Democrats against the Greens.
That's politics.
TONY JONES: Shouldn't Tony Abbott, yes or no, if I can ask for a yes or no answer, come out and tell us who was making those funds available for this operation?
BRONYWN BISHOP: That's for Tony Abbott to answer.
That's a question you'll have to ask him.
He's put on the record what he has done, what he gathered and what he has done and it is there to see.
But what I simply will not accept is that that there is a link between that and the decision of the Beattie Government to prosecute Pauline Hanson under the crimes act and put her into jail for three years in maximum security.
Which makes her a political prisoner.
TONY JONES: Craig Emerson, you're also pointing the finger at the PM.
Isn't it clear and doesn't the correspondence relating to -- or that's come to and from his office show that he passed all of this back to Tony Abbott's office?
CRAIG EMERSON: What it shows is that he knew in 1998 what Tony Abbott was doing.
He knew the full box and dice of what Tony Abbott was doing and yet he still sought on Friday to harvest One Nation votes.
Let's recall the name of this trust that Tony Abbott set up -- '"Australians for Honest Politics'.
This is Tony Abbott, the man who said you can't trust politicians.
He knew what he was talking about because you can't trust him.
He set this up to stitch up Pauline Hanson and Bronwyn Bishop is now saying there's a conspiracy -- she need look no further than Tony Abbott.
BRONYWN BISHOP: I said very simply a political decision was made and taken and it resulted in a woman becoming a political prisoner.
TONY JONES: And you said it repeatedly tonight as well and yesterday.
Thank you very much to both of you, Bronwyn Bishop and Craig Emerson for coming in to join us tonight.
CRAIG EMERSON: Pleasure.
BRONYWN BISHOP: Thank you.
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