Leadership Ballot Simon Crean - Leader of the Opposition

Radio Interview with John Laws

Transcript - Radio 2UE - 6 June 2003

E & OE - PROOF ONLY

LAWS: I trust that we have Simon Crean in our Canberra studio. Are you there, Simon?

CREAN: I am, John. How are you?

LAWS: As a loyal deputy under Kim Beazley, would you have expected better?

CREAN: John, look, it's happened. Expectations are one thing. I've got to deal with reality. We were in the stupid position, culminating most of all yesterday - a challenge without a challenger, and those making the challenge saying they couldn't win but that the destabilisation would continue. I had to bring an end to it. There are people who have not been acting in the interests of the Party, and I wasn't going to let that continue.

So I took action. I needed to establish, of course, that it was not a phoney ballot, that it was a real one. I needed to establish that Kim was actually standing. So I met with him last night to establish that. And then I notified the secretary and the chairman of the Caucus this morning that I would be calling a Special Meeting to resolve this issue, to draw a line under it, because I'm convinced I've got the support of the Caucus.

And I'm also convinced, John, that the agenda that I've started to lay out to save Medicare, to get opportunities for kids to get to unis and TAFE colleges, to save the Murray River, to cut the superannuation tax - these are agendas that Australian people want. And I'm renewing my mandate in the Caucus so that I can advance that mandate for the Australian people.

LAWS: Well, you see, the things that you're talking about are things that we all applaud and have applauded. But now they've gone into the background because of the mess that is the internal mess in the Labor Party. And I agree with you that it's got to be brought to an end.

CREAN: Yes. And, look, they know they didn't have the numbers. They couldn't even petition properly, and they were trying to go through all sorts of technicalities. And I said, 'Look, just forget about it. We've got a real problem here. It has to be fixed. Let's do it decisively and cleanly.' And in speaking with Kim last night, we both agreed that this has to be conducted honourably, that we have to just get on with the task of resolving it and then move on. Now, I'm working on the basis I will win. I'm confident about that but, most of all, John, I'm confident about that agenda. And I just need to get back the clear air again to advance it.

LAWS: Well, that's the fact of it. Listen, who organised the meeting last night? Did Kim Beazley call the meeting, or did you call the meeting?

CREAN: No, I initiated the process for the meeting.

LAWS: So Kim Beazley still hadn't fronted up to say, 'Listen, this is what is going to happen'?

CREAN: Correct. And, again, that's why I said I didn't want to call something on that was a phoney ballot. I think people who are historians of this understand the circumstances in which Bob Hawke called it against Paul Keating the first time, and didn't proceed with it.

So what I'm saying is that I've done the right thing all the way through. Others haven't, but I'm not going to, in the end, move from what I've always done in my life, John, and that is do the right thing and be honest with people, up front with them. I've never known any other way. I think loyalty is terribly important. I give it; I expect it in return. You get let down from time to time, but let's move on. I am still going to do it the right way, and that's why I moved decisively today.

LAWS: I was saying earlier this morning - and political leanings aside; just looking at human beings - have a look at John Howard and Bob Carr who unquestionably are the pre-eminent political leaders in Australia at this time. Both of them were once regarded as totally unelectable, but they were given time.

CREAN: Yes.

LAWS: You haven't been given time.

CREAN: No, I haven't. And some people who have been running this challenge against me, John, they've been doing it from day one of my leadership. That's what I've had to put up with.

I was also asked the question today about the difference in popularity between myself and the Prime Minister. Well, any poll you look at, the person who is the preferred Prime Minister or preferred Premier is always the incumbent.

LAWS: Of course.

CREAN: And before the 1996 election, Paul Keating was far preferred to John Howard. And yet Howard still won. And this is why I cannot understand it. It's almost a myopia of certain people in looking at opinion polls but not understanding what the real mood out there in the electorate is. This is not just a popularity contest, it's what leaders stand for. And John Howard, I've got no doubt that, whilst he's staying on, his agenda if implemented will see the destruction of Medicare. I've got no doubt that university places will be priced out of the reach of ordinary kids. I've got no doubt that, whilst he will talk about improving the environment, he will keep blaming the States as a reason for not doing anything. I want to do something on all of those fronts because I believe in a healthcare for all of the Australian people, not on the basis of having to pay again for it. I believe in the opportunity and ability for people to get to university if they've got capacity - not if they can afford to pay for it. These are Australian values, John, and I want to restore them. And the other thing I want to do is I want to give people a better deal for their retirement incomes.

LAWS: Well, I think that's one of the most important things. I think a lot of people will be interested to hear more about that. But we can't hear more about it so long as this squabbling is going on. Tell me, if Kim Beazley loses narrowly, do you think the in-fighting will continue?

CREAN: That's the question you've got to ask of Kim. I've called this to draw the line under it and to renew my mandate. And I'm not going to get into the numbers and what the outcome is, John. I'm confident that I will win. What he has got to do is to say that he'll accept the decision, retreat from the race, and let's get on with the agenda. I'm the one that has called this issue on to resolve it - no tricks, no spills, no petitions. I've said, let's allow the members of the Labor Party in the Parliament to determine this. They want an end to it, overwhelmingly they want an end to it. And they'll get behind me and my agenda.

LAWS: Okay, can I ask you this? What do you believe reignited Kim Beazley's leadership hopes. I mean, you would have thought two election defeats would have been enough.

CREAN: Well, you would have thought so. And until last night, John, the truth is I still didn't know he was running. I was out there having to deal with newspaper reports saying the leadership challenge was on, but the candidate hadn't declared. Now, that's what I had to deal with. It was stupid, but I took the view, having spoken to him, to rule off because there's no point calling a meeting when he says, 'Oh, look I haven't made up my mind yet. Just, you know, give me a few more weeks,' or something like that. I said, 'No. I want to know are you in or are you out? And if you're in, I'm going to call the meeting.'

LAWS: Yes, well, that is the way he behaved and handled things when he was Opposition Leader. I mean, he sat back thinking John Howard would lose, but there's a little more to it than that, isn't there?

CREAN: Yes, you can't operate on the basis that your opponents are doing badly and that's enough to get you in. I think they've had a bad couple of weeks in the Parliament. I this stuff about Philip Ruddock is really serious stuff. A person who is given citizenship and he's a fraudster from the Philippines and he's now let out of the country. What sort of immigration system is he running? And this was the person held up as the man who determined who comes to the country or not. But there are serious questions now about the connection between donations to the Liberal Party and how these citizenships have been given. If that connection is established, this is debasing our citizenship system.

LAWS: Yes, that's exactly right. But none of this can get airtime, none of this can be discussed openly and properly so long as you've got these problems.

CREAN: Well, true. I know that, you know that. I wish it were otherwise. It's not. But I've had to move decisively today to bring it to a head. And I will. And I'll be out there next week. I'm coming out to western Sydney, the universities out there because there are serious issues in terms of them being underfunded, kids not being able to get into university out in those areas. I want to change that, and I want to come out and talk to the people - just as I went and spoke to people about how we restore bulk billing and came up with a package that will work. I want to do the same thing for making university and TAFE places available to those who can qualify but can't get in because the places aren't there.

LAWS: Okay. When does this meeting take place? On Monday?

CREAN: Monday week. Parliament sits that week anyway, John, and we'd normally have the meeting on the Tuesday, but I've asked for it to be determined on the Monday so that we can go into the Parliament with it resolved.

LAWS: Are you pretty confident?

CREAN: Yes.

LAWS: Okay.

CREAN: I'm not only confident about my support, I'm confident about my agenda. And, John, this is not an exercise just to win the Labor Party leadership. I have to go through that, because that's where my opponents have put me. I want this mandate on Monday week to renew my mandate to take to the Australian people. I want to become Prime Minister so that we can save Medicare, get those university places, save the Murray River, cut the superannuation tax. That's what I want to be Prime Minister for. This hurdle is one that has been put in my way by my opponents. I'll get over it, just as I got over the other ones.

LAWS: Yes, I'm sure you'll get over it. Are you going to have a look at capital gains tax?

CREAN: No, not capital gains tax. We reached agreement with the Government in relation to the capital gains tax. I might say ...

LAWS: I thought you just might have another look at it.

CREAN: I might say, what they squibbed on was cracking down on tax avoidance, John.

LAWS: Yes, they did, you're right. Okay, good to talk to you, Simon. As I say, it doesn't matter whether you support a Labor Party or a Conservative Liberal Party, the point is that you just haven't been given long enough. And John Howard, I think, is a prime example of somebody who was dismissed. You know, the little four-eyed wimp, they used to call him; little Johnny Howard. He is now a fine Prime Minister in the minds of many. And Bob Carr is a great leader, a terrific leader. And these people were written off, but they were given a chance. I just hope they give you a chance.

CREAN: Yes. Well, I say that the Australian people are entitled to a fair go. I'm going to ensure they get one. I just want my colleagues to give me a fair go.

LAWS: Okay, good luck, Simon. Nice to talk to you.

CREAN: Thanks very much, John.

(ends)