Coalition Of The Willing, Anthrax Vaccination, Osama Bin Laden Tape Simon Crean - Leader of the Opposition

Radio Interview with Steve Price

Transcript - Radio 2UE - 12 February 2003

E & OE – PROOF ONLY

PRICE: George Bush, the US President, said yesterday that Australia was part of the Coalition of the Willing. His answer to the question, I think it came from Laurie Oakes, was, ‘Yes, I do'. Simon Crean believes those three words have committed Australia to war in Iraq, regardless of what the UN says. He's in our Canberra studio. Good morning, Mr Crean.

CREAN: Hi, Steve. How are you?

PRICE: I'm okay. Why would that come as a surprise to anyone?

CREAN: Well, because the Prime Minister has been denying every time he's been asked the question that he hasn't made the commitment, and what these words do is to confirm what John Howard has been denying for weeks. We've asked that question of John Howard. We've asked it of the Deputy Prime Minister as recently as the day before, and they continued to deny that they were part of the Coalition of the Willing.

PRICE: So do you interpret the Coalition of the Willing as the people who are willing to go into Iraq without the UN? But if the UN says you can go in, you can go in, so that's okay to be part of that Coalition of the Willing? I just don't understand why you're making that point of difference if it doesn't mean we're necessarily going in there.

CREAN: The simple proposition is this, Steve. We can still avoid a war, but the only way we can avoid a war is to do it through the United Nations' processes. The United Nations already has a very strong resolution on its books. It says that Saddam Hussein has to disarm. I argue he has to be disarmed, but he has to be disarmed in accordance with the United Nations' resolution. The way to avoid the war is to get him to comply with that resolution. What the US is proposing by way of the Coalition of the Willing is that, regardless of what the UN determines, they will go to war with a group of people who are signed up. It's not just me that saying that's the definition of their Coalition of the Willing, it's Secretary of Defense Rumsfeld and it's Secretary of State Colin Powell. And Prime Minister Howard has always been very sensitive about this issue. We've argued that he's pre-deployed the troops, and he won't be able to pull them out. Everyone knows, especially after his conversation with President Bush in the last 24 hours, if President Bush says, ‘We're going. Will you come?', John Howard is going to say yes.

PRICE: Prime Minister John Howard has put himself in the middle of this process now. He's there talking, as you said, to the three most powerful men in the United States. Today he's spoken with Hans Blix and Kofi Annan. Isn't it better to have a Prime Minister and a Government that is in there with the heavy-hitters rather than sitting on the sidelines watching all this unfold, having no influence whatsoever?

CREAN: Yes, of course. But he's got to use the influence. I mean, our alliance with the United States, Steve, says under Article 1 …

PRICE: But given your relationship with the Americans at the moment, they wouldn't even be talking to you.

CREAN: Well, they are. But let's go to where the action is at the moment in Washington and in New York. John Howard should be using the strength of his Prime Ministership and the Alliance with the United States to argue what I've been arguing. Article 1 of that Alliance says we should use the United Nations to resolve international conflict. John Howard has not been strong enough in asserting that point. He's now gone to the US - he went on Saturday saying that he was going to urge George Bush to wait for a second resolution in the United Nations. What we now know is the Coalition of the Willing is prepared to go without a second resolution from the United Nations. So where does John Howard stand on that?

PRICE: We learn this morning the F-18s will be in the front line if there is a war against Iraq. How do you feel about that?

CREAN: Well, I feel very uneasy about it. I mean, this is what John Howard said, ‘We're just pre-deploying them, because we're getting preparatory work.' But this just is more confirmation that the commitment has already been made to go to war, but he won't tell the Australian people. It leaks out by bits and pieces. And yesterday, what the President confirmed in three words – ‘Yes, I do' – is that we're locked in. You know, this like the marriage proposal, Steve. Yes, I do. This is what George Bush believes John Howard has said to him. And these two are very close.

PRICE: We've got three sailors off the Kanimbla who have refused to take anthrax injections, and have been offloaded. Your opinion of that?

CREAN: Well, I'm very concerned about this. We will be …

PRICE: Didn't they know before they went?

CREAN: Well, it's interesting. I saw the reports of the 7.30 Report last night in which one of the people concerned said they didn't know before they went. Now, the Department of Defence said they did. This is something that has to be, clearly, investigated, and it will be. I've had issues raised with me by parents and relatives of some others who wouldn't take the anthrax. I think there's also this further issue of the allegation last night that has to be investigated: will the people who have refused to take the anthrax, will they suffer in terms of promotion or posting, or any of those sorts of things. This is a very worrying development, Steve, and we do have to get to the bottom of it. And we will raise those issues in the Parliament. We have the opportunity to do it in the Senate Estimates processes, I think, tomorrow this issue is on.

PRICE: I don't want to catch you on the hop here, but CNN has just broadcast what they claim to be audio from Al-Jazeera of Osama bin Laden calling on Muslims, all Muslims, to show solidarity against US-led military action in Iraq.

CREAN: Well, that is a very worrying development if it's true. I'll be seeking intelligence advice on the veracity of the tape and the warning. But this is the very thing we have to avoid. I mean, what we cannot have happen is a war break out in circumstances in which it's anti-US or, worse, anti-Islam – whichever way people want to cast that argument.

PRICE: Well, it seems bin Laden is trying to turn this into a Muslim versus non-Muslim conflict.

PRICE: Well, bin Laden has been the focus of everyone's attention, Steve. And we stand as one in saying we will support any action to take out terrorism and to bring the terrorists to justice, to bring them together collectively, ourselves fighting the War on Terror. We've never had any quibble about that and I've consistently said that if the link can be made between Iraq and the War on Terror, then we would support action, because that's consistent with it. But in none of the evidence so far presented has that link been made. I know that the Prime Minister wants to try and make that connection, but that connection – including on the advice of Colin Powell – has not been made.

CREAN: We appreciate your time. Opposition Leader Simon Crean joining us there from Canberra.

(ends)