Iraq, Sanctions against Zimbabwe, Costello’s visit to the Tree of Knowledge

Radio Interview with Howard Sattler

Transcript - Radio 2SM - 14 August 2002

E & OE – PROOF ONLY

SATTLER: Simon Crean joins me now, good morning Simon? You there Simon?

CREAN: Yes I am Howard. How are you?

SATTLER: Good to have you on the program. Are you back from the sea yet off Darwin?

CREAN: (Laughs) Yes I am. It was a long flight back down last night.

SATTLER: I reckon.

CREAN: Back from Darwin, it's nice weather up there too.

SATTLER: Now I don't know whether this has been bought to your attention but the majority of Australians in a poll out today in The Australian newspaper are opposed to us going in with military action against Iraq. The figures are 50% against, 39% for. If that's the case, shouldn't you and your Party be saying, hang on a minute, why are we even contemplating going in behind the United States?

CREAN: Well because I think we always have to keep the option open Howard, that if a compelling case is made we need to support, but that compelling case has not yet been made.

SATTLER: Well far from it.

CREAN: And I've been saying that for some time. Now in the meantime what we've had is the Foreign Minister ramping up the rhetoric, talking about the need to go to war and costing Australia in terms of wheat sales. I believe that we have to persist with the United Nation's framework aimed at getting the weapons inspectors back into Iraq to make the assessment and to give us the facts. Because if the facts establish that he is amassing weapons of mass destruction, then steps to remove those weapons of mass destruction need to be taken under the same mandate.

SATTLER: Yeah, but Simon lots, of countries have massed weapons of mass destruction, or amassed I should say, and we're not invading all of them?

CREAN: But they don't have the UN, this is the point of getting the international action determining the direction, not unilateral action, not one country or one foreign minister mouthing of and trying to ramp up the war with rhetoric, but doing it in a considered, proper way. You see the point is that there is concern following the Iraq war, Iraq is in a unique circumstance, it was attacked by a United Nations led coalition to get it out of Kuwait.

SATTLER: Ten years ago.

CREAN: Ten years ago. I might say, when Australia joined that under the Hawke Prime Ministership, when we joined that coalition we did not lose wheat sales to Iraq.

SATTLER: Well the point was Iraq had actually gone outside its borders then too and attack other sovereign nations.

CREAN: It had, but as a consequence of that settlement it was also ordered to get rid of its weapons of mass destruction. That's the UN mandate ongoing and that's why it's different in relation to Iraq compared to perhaps other nations…

SATTLER: …Simon, in the United States now, there are a whole host of Republicans who are even questioning what Bush is about and even some of them are accusing him of breaking his agreement never to exploit the national crisis that followed the September 11 terrorist attacks. They've got mid term elections due in just a couple of months over there. Do you think that President Bush may well be exploiting the Iraq situation to win votes in November?

CREAN: Well it's hard to say from here. What I can say though is he's not talking the language that Alexander Downer has. So you've go to ask yourself what's Alexander…

SATTLER: So we're ahead of the Yanks are we, on this?

CREAN: Well he is. Downer is and the Prime Minister needs to pull him into line.

SATTLER: Well he's not going to do that.

CREAN: Well he has to, he has to, because it's not in our interests and Australia has paid a very heavy price so far for Mr Downer's intemperate language.

SATLER: Well the Trade Minister just told me or may have been the Agriculture Minister, we can just go and find other markets. Is it that easy?

CREAN: Go and tell that to the wheat growers. Of course it's not easy. I mean Iraq has been a huge market for our wheat. It's been a huge market for more than a decade. To argue that you can simply place wheat else where, some thing like a billion dollars worth of it, get him to nominate the markets.

SATTLER: Alright Simon I can't find anybody apart from the United States that is talking about going in with a pre-emptive strike against Saddam Hussein. The only two countries I've seen are the United States, and that's just President Bush, and us.

CREAN: And us. And you have the Defence Minister, Senator Hill, last time Parliament was back, talking about a pre-emptive strike. You've got Alexander Downer talking up the issue, what we need is cool heads in this. Cool heads and proper consideration of the facts. And I think a smart thing to do would be for the Government to give us a status report to the Parliament, it returns next week. Give us a status report on what they know and let's debate the issues. Don't let this hot headed Foreign Minister go round continuing to put Australia's trade at risk by his intemperate language.

SATTLER: All right, now what should we be doing about a country where I reckon there's a much worse problem at the moment, that's Zimbabwe. I mean the lunatic who's running the place over there, and I don't mind calling him that, he can sue me if he wishes. But at the moment he is supporting people on a murderous campaign just to kick white farmers out. Now all we've done so far is to suspend these people from the Commonwealth, but should we be doing something else?

CREAN: Yeah, we should've taken tougher action when the Commonwealth was here back in February/ March. John Howard chaired that meeting and didn't even have this issue on the agenda. Tony Blair was desperately trying to get the matter listed and it wasn't. We at the time, the Labor Party said, not only should it be listed and discussed on an international response taken, but if that can't be achieved, Australia should impose sanctions, a limited number of sanctions against Rhodesia, Zimbabwe. What we're seeing today is the Prime Minister finally saying he's caught up with that agenda. I welcome…

SATTLER: But he hasn't said what he' going to do?

CREAN: No he hasn't. But I welcome the fact that he says he's prepared to consider it. Let's just see him act on this. I'm sick to death of the Prime Minister when he's asked questions saying he'll look at it and nothing ever materialises.

SATTLER: Now if you were him what would you do about it?

CREAN: We would have imposed, first we would have insisted upon the issue being discussed in the international forum. We would have led the debate there for there to be sanctions and got international support and in circumstances if that were not possible and I think it would've been possible to get that support, if it were not possible we would have moved ourselves with like minded countries to do it.

SATTLER: Isn't there a case for the United Nations to have a look at going into Zimbabwe? I mean we're talking about people just being potentially slaughtered over there.

CREAN: Well yes there is, but it's also an, was a real opportunity to show that the Commonwealth, CHOGM, had teeth. I mean Zimbabwe is part of an international…

SATTLER: It certainly showed they didn't.

CREAN: It showed they didn't and that is lack of leadership. That's the point I'm making Howard. Here we had this meeting, in Australia, heads of government from all the Commonwealth nations here, our Prime Minister chairing it and he doesn't even have the guts to put it on the agenda.

SATTLER: Hey listen I've got to ask you have you ever been to the Tree of Knowledge?

CREAN: I have not been to the Tree of Knowledge. I have been deterred from getting to the Tree of Knowledge on three occasions but I'm a patron of the Workers Heritage up there and it is my intention to eventually get there. It's an important part of our history.

SATTLER: It is. It's where the Labor Party has its roots up in Queensland and a Liberal Treasurer's going to be there today. Do you think he'll learn anything?

CREAN: Well I hope he does. But remember this Liberal Treasurer was once in the Labor Party, Howard. (Laughs) This is a Labor man that's turned. I hope he regains some of the knowledge and supports some just causes in the future. I hope he learns a bit from our rich history.

SATTLER: Well the tree is looking a bit sick apparently so in Barcaldine so I don't know what effect it will have when a Treasurer confronts it.

CREAN: I suppose if it was anticipating that miserable Treasurer coming there I'd be feeling a bit sick too. I mean he after all is the person who thinks that the solution to unemployment in the regions is to take a pay cut.

SATTLER: All right you should pay me for throwing you the line. Anyway, have…

CREAN: (Laughs) But I'd love to visit up there at some stage but each time it seems I've had something else come up but I'll make it one day.

SATTLER: Good on you. Thanks for your time.

CREAN: Thanks Howard.

ENDS